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That fake wood [in Black Forest Ghetto] is like hyper-wood; it’s like chocolate in terms of the colours and textures but in terms of what it represents, it’s quite dark.
M - It’s a bit Hansel and Gretel I suppose, obviously the house has that connotation. But it’s kind of sweet, a bit Disney, in a way.
S - It’s darker than that! If guilt were a substance it would be wood brown, wouldn’t it?
M - If guilt was an enlarged souvenir it would be a big brown tankard.
Given what you said about the evolution/creation debate, is it safe to say you see art is a vehicle for addressing big ideas?
M - I think so. Art’s not about pretty pictures or nice shapes and colours stuck together – not to me anyway.
S - We both feel it should have a purpose, otherwise it’s just eye candy. The other thing is artists making work about themselves, it’s interesting to a point but that can be quite tiresome.
M - Very tiresome, yeah.
S - We both feel [art] should be going somewhere. We can try and explore big ideas but in an open and accessible way.
M - We want there to be different levels of meaning don’t we? People get what they can from it, different ideas.
A lot of your work seems to take historically-based subjects and, if not debunks them, shows them as slightly debased. Is that conscious?
M - I don’t know if it’s debased…
The historical precedent suggests a hierarchy and it’s nice to mix that up, undermine bits of that, look at it afresh.
M - We don’t particularly like hierarchies do we?
S- No.
In the genesis of a piece, does it start with ideas or with stuff? Or is it a mixture of the two? Or do you think “this is a theme we’re going to tackle?”
S - No, no it’s never like that.
You haven't got a list somewhere?
M - “Themes we must tackle.”
S - Jesus. Hitler. Done that. Check.
M - Chairman Mao. Poll Pot. Wrestling.
S - It’s normally an object that starts a conversation – like the souvenirs from the charity shop [which influenced Black Forest Ghetto]. When we’re making stuff we have a good old chat about it until it’s clear in our minds. There’s not a great deal of experimenting.
Do you do a lot of mooching around charity shops, jumble sales and the like?
M - We do to a degree but it would be nice to have a bit more free time to do that actually.
S - [They’re] a massive treasure trove of gems of counterculture and people’s memories –
M - ready to be appropriated and joined together with something else to form a different narrative. And the way the stalls are set out sometimes, with different types of objects just sitting next to each other, they gain narratives straight from that.
S -And the fact that they are [perceived] of as being virtually worthless makes them easy to manipulate.
M - And cheap to buy. Though objects aren’t so cheap nowadays are they?
Are there any pieces from your past that you think “ooh…” about?
M - I wouldn’t go that far. There’s nothing we’re embarrassed about is there?
S - No, not at all, it’s about making stuff and if you have negative feelings about it then that’s just part of the process, that’s a good thing too.
M - We’re not precious, that’s the nature of our work – sometimes it really works well within the space and you can’t do much else to it, other times it’s not quite there and that’s impetus too. Most of the time it’s fantastic.
S - Staggeringly good. 
More staggeringly good art from Doyle & Mallinson
Ecce Homo Tesco is at the Airspace gallery from 27 June - 25 July
Interview © 2009 Wheel Me Out. No part can be used for any purpose without prior consent. Please contact editorial@wheelmeout.com
