Since 2000 Signa and Arthur Köstler, aka SIGNA, have been organising performance installations in atmospheric arenas including basement flats, old hospitals and hotels. Recently they opened their latest show, Salò, in a Copenhagen villa that had been uninhabited since 1943. Salò, a 24-hours-a-day, 7-days-a-week interactive performance is based on Pasolini’s 1975 film of the same name, in which children are kidnapped, tortured and eventually killed by four fascist libertines.
During the show’s three month run audience members visited the villa at all hours of the day, and their experiences were determined by how far they were willing to involve themselves. Wheel spoke to Signa and Arthur about this uncompromising approach to performance, and how Salò was received by ‘guests’ as they looked on at simulated rape and were invited to eat what really did look like shit.
By Luke Cooper
Photo: Arthur Köstler
What was the process of making Salò?
Signa Köstler - Together with our co-director Thomas Bo Nilsson and the cast, we had four months to prepare ourselves. Our point of departure was Pasolini’s film and we spent a lot of time watching countless documentaries about it. It was immensely important that everyone involved got to know each other well, so there was trust between us. Then we started working on individual characters; researching trafficking, child abuse, looking in other directions.
How did you prepare the actors for the more violent and explicit scenes?
SK - I think this was harder to watch than to do because we know each other very well. We have ways of communicating out of character so we can make sure things don’t go too far. We are very disciplined so even when it seems wild and impulsive, it is extremely controlled.
So you had ways of controlling the action?
Arthur Köstler - We had borders that were accepted and we had special agreements so you could do this with that person and that with this person and so forth ...
SK - There has been so much concern about the actors. It’s insulting to them in many ways, suggesting they could be manipulated, and it’s insulting to us. I think it’s stupid to look away from what the piece is about.
What is it about?
SK - It explores the abuses of power, the mechanisms of abuse and human cruelty; the effects on victims and how they act out their anger and suffering on others.
AK - Also to make a non-consumable show as Pasolini wanted to make a non-consumable film.
What appeals to you about immersive performance?
SK - We have never worked in any other form. I started ten years ago and it made sense given my experiences as a private dancer and an art historian interested in installation art. I wanted to create something that was both a confrontation and a dialogue.
Photo: Erich Goldmann
Do people enter into the fiction that you create?
AK - There isn’t really another choice ... You don’t have to do anything, you just have to be a person that enters a room and relates to the people there. Of course there are people who don’t get it and say, “Hey! Aren't you Arthur Köstler?”
What are some of the most memorable reactions?
AK - I could tell you the most disgusting things that the audience did or what we made them do but that is not the point. It is more about when they get so involved that everyone gets to know each other ... This was a show without hope ... but some people actually found a way to befriend the perpetrated, so they could find some hope within them.
Were some of the more extreme scenes a catharsis for you all?
SK - We don’t do this for therapy.
AK - The most extreme [violent and sexual] scenes are not the most extreme scenes of the show. It could be that one character says something so evil to another that it destroys all hope for them. There was a “silent terror” that was not visible, and only understood by those who knew the characters and their stories well.
As the weeks progressed did you understand the motives for the piece more?
SK - I found out that many people in the audience were extremely passive aggressive and indifferent to the things we tried to show them. They came for the thrill of seeing a rape and for the entertainment of it; they couldn't give a shit about why it was happening. This was devastating to me. It made me very angry and it made me want to confront them with their own responsibility. That became important.
What was hardest about leaving the performance behind?
AK - The hardest thing after working together for several months, getting very close, sharing sensitive things, is going back home to people who have no idea what you have been doing.
What's up next for SIGNA?
SK - We are doing a show in Spring 2011 in Cologne, produced by Schaulspiel. It’s called The Dog Trials, based on Der Prozess by Kaftka and more generally on Kafka. I’m absorbed in Kafka right now and it’s going to be in an enormous, 1950s institutional building with cold, stone floors and long, long hallways with heavy doors and small offices. Cologne is a very strange city, it was bombed a lot.
AK - A lot of ugly buildings, people say. I like that, actually. 
You can catch SIGNA's next performance in Cologne in Spring 2011
Luke Cooper is a founding member of the artistic company Wunderkammer. Their latest project, Drive-In, based in Copenhagen, is part performance, part curatorial platform.
Interview © 2010 Wheel Me Out. No part can be used for any purpose without prior consent. Please contact editorial@wheelmeout.com
